ArcticFox wrote:
I don't agree. I think people have an inherent psychological need to believe in SOMETHING, or religious people would be in the minority now.
Not a need, but the human brain is naturally inclined to have supernatural thoughts, from ghosts and spirits in trees to christianity. There's a lot of fascinating research that has been done on the brain and human behavior that helps explain in a scientific sense why this is.
ArcticFox wrote:
This is why I keep saying Atheism is actually a religion. You may see yourself as an exception to what I'm about to assert, and that's fine, but most Atheists I know are quite passionate about their beliefs.
That first sentence is kinda an oxymoron, and I'm not saying that to be argumentative. Atheism by its very definition is the lack of any religious beliefs. Although atheism is a belief regarding religious things, it is not a religious belief system because it doesn't have any set defined beliefs.
You could argue that some atheists are dogmatic, but that doesn't make it religious, you can be dogmatic about anything. Neither is passion exclusive to religiousness. Most people are passionate about issues they care about whether they be politics, religion etc. Atheists tend to be more outspoken and passionate about it because they live in societies dominated by the viewpoint they oppose
ArcticFox wrote:
It isn't that they don't believe in God, it's that they believe in NO God. The difference is subtle but important. The former is reasonable. The latter is a trigger to attack religion.
What basis are you making this judgment on? Not all atheists are the angry people in the second category, if those people would even qualify as atheists. The former is reasonable? Did you just admit that atheism is a reasonable position!?!?!?
wferwfer wrote:
Its not about choosing to reject or accept god. Its a matter of belief. I'm about to repeat myself, but you guys haven't seen my past posts.
ArcticFox wrote:
Just a side note: People can read your posts and still disagree, bro.
Broski, dude, I was just justifying reposting past stuff.
wferwfer wrote:
To reject something, to make a choice you have to believe that its all true in the first place. That it exists. No rational person follows a religion they don't believe to be real. I don't follow your god for the same reason you don't follow Vishnu or Allah.
ArcticFox wrote:
Sure, but on some level (and I can only speak for myself here) I made a conscious choice to accept certain religious truths. I could have become a Muslim if my reason and logic had been directed that way, but they were not, and so I chose to dismiss the possibility that Islam is the truth. Does that mean I went through every single world religion, in turn, until I settled on one? No it doesn't, but it does mean once I had discovered the truth and recognized it for what it was I consciously chose to dismiss the rest.
Sure..... or... I'm not really 100% percent on what your point is. Accepting certain religious truths is believing that its all true in the first place, right? I didn't make any judgments in my past post about how one gets to the point of believing, only that believing is necessary.
wferwfer wrote:
You're not going to make a choice, you can't make a choice about something if you don't believe it to be real. To reject you have to be conscious of it, have the knowledge at your disposal. Thats something that a non-believer doesn't have if the christian god is real. I'm not inexplicably choosing to doom myself to hell right know. Its an arrogant, ignorant assumption.
ArcticFox wrote:
No it isn't. If you were open to all possibilities then you wouldn't have a Dawkins quote in your sig and you wouldn't push so hard against people who give you advice and suggestions on how to discover God for yourself. You've often claimed to be open and objective and I don't doubt your honesty in that you think you are, but your words and reactions tell a different story.
Yes, it is. I know you think I deep down know its true but ignore it for the kicks or whatever. That attitude is arrogant and its exactly why christians have a lot of stereotypes for being obnoxious. Even if I am all the things you say I am your post amounted to a rebuttal of my character, not my point. A point which still stands.
wferwfer wrote:
Therefore I don't see how you can blame a jew or atheist or whoever for not following christianity if they genuinely doubt that its true. To make a choice, you have to have the knowledge to do so. Its not an intentional failure to do the right thing. I don't see how you could expect those people to go to hell and call it justice.
ArcticFox wrote:
I don't make that claim. For those who insist that disbelief on Earth is an automatic ticket to Hell you need to talk to the Protestants and Catholics here. Mormons see it differently.
Well thats the issue at the heart of this debate so I don't know why you responded to my posts. I know you don't believe in the automatic ticket to hell, but 99.9999% of christians do (as your sect is small) so its an important issue. The majority of christians tend to think that people who don't share their beliefs are just fools who know the truth but choose to reject it of their own fault and therefore deserve their fate. I think thats a horrible, inhumane, and incredibly inaccurate assumption to make. Its arrogant and offends me. Its a matter of belief.
wferwfer wrote:
-Look back at Lazarus' last post and the previous conversation I had with him Arctic. You're one of those christians.
Quote:
I'm not one of those (and would be glad to elaborate) but I do want to thank you for acknowledging that I'm a Christian. Not too many people around here do
I forgot that you don't believe in the automatic ticket to hell thing, but you still believe in the non-believers choosing to dang ourselves just for poops and giggles. So you're half one of those people. And yes I admitted you're a christian.
Edit: I just realized why a certain word starting with D keeps coming out wrong as dang. It never occurred to me that people would sensor that. Thats kinda lame guys. I could understand if you wouldn't want me saying god d***, but the word on its own is nothing offensive. Ironic too, as a big part of monotheistic religion historically has been the fire and brimstone.
