Christ Centered Gamer

There is separation of church and state but not removal of religion form the state. The state cannot establish it's own state religion...which we have never done(aka church of england).

I don't know if this viewpoint has been covered (there is a lot of pages to read though, heh), but here's my opinion.


Yes, it should be removed. Why? Because it is a currency representing our COUNTRY. And no, we don't trust in God as a country, do we? The more and more depraved our country gets, hopefully our brothers and sisters can wake up from their slumber, and resume our mission to spread the gospel actively. How often we forget what our standing orders are...

I agree it should be removed, but for constitutional reasons. "In God We Trust" violates separation of church and state and really shouldn't be allowed in a country that officially has a secular government. But the supreme court has upheld that certain religious things are okay on the grounds that they are a matter of tradition and history that have lost most religious value. Thats common sense. You don't have to go changing a state flag or something thats been around for three hundred years. We don't have to go back and purge religion from anything old.

The problem is that "In God We Trust" was added during the fifties by an act of congress. Same goes for the pledge which originally had no mention of God but was changed in the fifties. Actually I just looked it up and the guy who wrote it was a christian socialist who wanted to include equality and fraternity as well.

Links?

Links:

http://www.ushistory.org/documents/pledge.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_allegiance

http://usgovinfo.about.com/cs/usconstitution/a/pledgehist.htm

http://undergod.procon.org/viewresource.asp?resourceID=67


Yes Wikipedias on there but they all say the same thing and Wikipedia gives alot of detail. So yeah, the original pledge started out in a childrens magazine commemorating Columbus Day and had "in God" added by congress in the fifties after a pastor got eisenhower interested.

Interesting, thanks mate.

No, it should not, for it is the motto in which this country was born. Even though being not true anymore for most. It is a strong part of the beginning of this country and the belief that most of its founding fathers had. Whoever might not have this belief is not forced to believe it, but respect it because it is the foundation of this country.

I'm not sure if you meant this literally but I just finished explaining how it never was the countries motto. If anything the countries motto is E pluribus unum, which dates back to 1776 and has always been on our money and government stuff.



I'm going to have to disagree with this too. A lot of the founding fathers were definitely not strong theists. if anything as a group you would label them as deists. Take a look a the writings of some of the most famous founders like Thomas Jefferson and you'll see a lot of them were most likely atheists. Jefferson was the one who coined the term separation of church and state.



It is not the foundation of this country. America has always been a christian country in the sense that the majority religion is christianity, but it was founded on the ideas of the Enlightenment such as secular government that is officially neutral with regard to religion. That idea is obviously in stark contrast to any kind of religious founding, and is what they made our government to be. It cannot favor, promote, or hinder in any way religion over another religion, religion over irreligion, or irreligion over religion.

Sticking "God" on our money is a clear violation of that. So is putting the ten commandments on the lawn of a courthouse. Or government sponsored prayer in schools. Many christians want a government thats supposed to represent everyone to favor their belief and give them public sponsorship, which is something I definitely should not respect. Its only in the past several decades that the christian right has tried to rewrite history to justify this.

What you say, can be truth to some people and fallacy to others. So, in other words, it is not a perfect truth. I believe it is just an opinion, that people are free to express as they see it.
I know many people that disagree. very respectable and wise people in fact. Also, I have traveled to many countries in Europe and 95% of the European people I talked to believe and see America as a country born on Christianity.
Was it not America mainly a place of refuge for protestants? Was not the Bible the main textbook for schooling children? In colonies was not the Bible the main standard of law? Whatever people today might say, Europeans and many Americans still believe that compared to other countries, America was a country born on the motto of, "In God we trust", even though it was not exactly quoted as such by our founding fathers. Even though some of our founding fathers did not have the same beliefs, what matters is that the most influential ones did.

That is my opinion, that disagrees with your opinion, which makes it an unset truth. I do not believe that there is never a right or wrong in any matter, but sometimes we can agree to disagree and let the majority win (even though I clearly see that there is a very high chance that the majority will disagree with me in this matter, and therefor win). Whatever happens, I will stand strong in believing my opinion is right, while respecting the majorities views as well.
God Bless!

wfer is both right and wrong.

"E pluribus unum" dates back to 1776, when it first appeared on currency. There was no legislative action taken to consider this an official national motto, however. In the 1860s, a Christian movement spurred the United States to incorporate "In God We Trust" as the motto. (Source)

That said, this isn't a matter of opinion. There are verifiable facts that show what beliefs the Founding Fathers had.... so opinion is practically moot here.

And as for your appeals about the Bible's usage: it depended on the community. Initially, the United States' system of law was based around the Magna Carta, which is a legal document and not the Bible. So no, the law was not based around the Bible. Sorry. As for being taught, it again was highly dependent on where you lived. If you were a Puritan, then you were more likely to be taught from the Bible. But remember that there were a great many brilliant scientific minds at that time, and their "heretical" thoughts would not have pushed the world to where it is today in a technological sense had they not gone against what was accepted and taught. The same is true for philosophy. The Age of Enlightenment really propelled the world forward, agree with it or not.

Well, this generations clearly does know how to strongly change things into their favor, and for their own ease.
Nobody said that America was 100% Christian, just that the majority clearly was. It is not because of nothing that the world viewed America as a Christian country for so long, but it certainly is not one any more. That is why, from here on forward it will not be going up, but down. Forsake God, and He will forsake you. There is no doubt in my mind that the reason America has been such a great country and so richly blessed is because it was closer to God then any other country. In fact you know what? Sometimes I do believe that, "In God we trust" should be taken off the currency because this country is now going the opposite way of that motto and it is not what distinguishes them among the nations anymore.
Moreover, I do think that it is a strong part of this country and a countries history should be respected..
As you see... I am not trying to fight against it, because it would be futile. This generation is looking for an easier way, a way that let's them do what they please and not hurt their conscience. I am just respectfully stating my opinion..

Firstly, if you forsake God he will never forsake you. Let you go your own way, yes.

Definition of forsake:
1. to quit or leave entirely; abandon; desert: She has forsaken her country for an island in the South Pacific.
2. to give up or renounce (a habit, way of life, etc.).

He's always ready to accept whoever calls. The parable of the prodigal son is an example. After the son wasted all of his inheritance and came back to his father, his father ran to him and threw a banquet.



George Washington has John 11:25,26 written on his grave. Just sayin.

Dude you're missing the point. No ones denying that christianity has had a big impact on the countries history and yes it is a majority christian country. You can consider it a christian country in the sense that its the religion that dominates. Thats fine. However it has nothing to do with the facts of the countries founding. The founding fathers had many diverse religious beliefs, many weren't religious. America was not founded for religious reasons or on religious principles, it was founded on the democratic ideals that came from the enlightenment. Once such idea was secular government which said foudners incorporated into Americas legal framework.

The government is, officially, secular and as such separation of church is something
we should adhere to. Its not there to squash religion, rather to allow true religious freedom by remaining religious neutral. Take the controversial example of the supreme court banning prayer in school. Its not the governments business to take your kids and lead prayers in class. How would you feel if they had them recite an islamic prayer? And even if you don't care, it raises the question of what right the government has to be pushing a belief system on your kids. Indoctrination by a government thats supposed to represent all of us.

Didn't say none of them were religious. But that detail dosn't even matter much. Even the devote founders believed in religious freedom and the secular government they created.

@ Uncommon

America's history is actually pretty shocking.

From everything I've read, we've been doing terrible things to our own citizens and to other countries since just about day one(and previously, if you count the time period before the Revolution).

Slavery, genocide, conquering other nations, slaughtering eachother in the Civil War(and the Revolutionary war, in some cases)...

America has a violent, blood-drenched past. I see nothing Christian about it.

As for the argument that our founders weren't Christians and weren't trying to create a Christian country... I should think you'd agree with that, Uncommon, because otherwise America is a great example of how unChristian Christians sometimes are. >_>